D U C H Y o f I R O N G A T E
ROCKIN’ REIGN ALTHING MINUTES - 9-19-10
Given Midreign Festivities, all but the most pertinent business was unanimously postponed until a secondary althing next week as The Duchy Chose to Keep It Short and Keep the Good Times Rolling.
1. Given the feast was donated in whole at no cost to the Duchy, Renity proposed donating $100 of The Duchy's funds towards our donation to the Food Drive.
This was greeted well by Tha' Duke and Rockin' Regent and the Populace Unanimously approved her suggestion.
The Althing was closed with all pending business and any new business to be considered next weekend. (Will be attached as a reply to this post)
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The results of the food drive have now been compiled as the donations of goods were gathered, sorted (as our Rockin' Regent was keeping a close eye for out-of-date items to discard), weighed, and the monies counted.
The Duchy of Irongate raised a total of $200 as well as 220 pounds of food and dry goods. Huzzah!
We had a great event, a ton of new folks, a two-tons of fun, and what I'm sure all will agree was very successful drive for The Amtgard Wide Food Fight.
Cheers to all who helped make this a great event. I thank you and you should know that You Rock.
IRONGATE ALTHING MINUTES- FOODFIGHT RESULTS
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OTTO VON MUELLER
- Site Admin
- Posts: 174
- Joined: Wed Mar 17, 2010 4:38 pm
- Location: IG in GP
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OTTO VON MUELLER
- Site Admin
- Posts: 174
- Joined: Wed Mar 17, 2010 4:38 pm
- Location: IG in GP
9-26-10 ADDENDUM
•Congrats to All Who Participated in Midreign Festivities and Thanks to All Who Helped Increase Our Numbers Significantly. They Keep Coming Back, So We Are Doing Great.
•The FOOD FIGHT, was a huge success, GP is second based on current tallies. Amazing given our size compared to all other Kingdoms.
•Clapp will Remain Fighter Practice Location as All Who Know It Like It.
•Doughboy Brought Up His Issue Regarding the Altercation With Darken at Midreign.
A Note Given The Amazing Cross Talk Already Being Had:
Before Further Discussion was Had at This Althing I, Otto, told the Populace:
4 yes, 0 no, 2 Abstain
The Populace Voted to Consider it at IG.
Darken’s Part Was Discussed: It was noted again that any punishment had on this field would effect Darken more than DB and so would not seem correct. Probation was discussed, terms were discussed, votes were made where all but one of The Populace abstained to approve an indefinite probation against threats until Darken made his own Proposal:
6 Month Field Suspension, No Threats Will Be Made Toward Anyone
The former Probation discussion was dropped in favor of Darken’s proposal.
5 yes, 0 no, 2 Abstain- Approved Darken’s Proposal
Doughboy’s Part was Discussed: regarding the safety of Nirvana and children:
Proposed 6 Month Field Suspension plus 1 Weekend A Month IG Community Service in Archery Practice and Safety with Other Weapons Making and Safety Classes to Follow for 6 Months.
5 yes, 0 no, 1 Abstain- Approved
•The FOOD FIGHT, was a huge success, GP is second based on current tallies. Amazing given our size compared to all other Kingdoms.
•Clapp will Remain Fighter Practice Location as All Who Know It Like It.
•Doughboy Brought Up His Issue Regarding the Altercation With Darken at Midreign.
A Note Given The Amazing Cross Talk Already Being Had:
Before Further Discussion was Had at This Althing I, Otto, told the Populace:
- We can take care of our own but--if this needs to be brought up at all, this Shouldn’t be Handled Here Given the Mundane Issues and Perceived Bias
This is between two Kingdom Officers and from Different Fields
If This This Should be Handled It Should Be Handled at the Kingdom Level
4 yes, 0 no, 2 Abstain
The Populace Voted to Consider it at IG.
Darken’s Part Was Discussed: It was noted again that any punishment had on this field would effect Darken more than DB and so would not seem correct. Probation was discussed, terms were discussed, votes were made where all but one of The Populace abstained to approve an indefinite probation against threats until Darken made his own Proposal:
6 Month Field Suspension, No Threats Will Be Made Toward Anyone
The former Probation discussion was dropped in favor of Darken’s proposal.
5 yes, 0 no, 2 Abstain- Approved Darken’s Proposal
Doughboy’s Part was Discussed: regarding the safety of Nirvana and children:
Proposed 6 Month Field Suspension plus 1 Weekend A Month IG Community Service in Archery Practice and Safety with Other Weapons Making and Safety Classes to Follow for 6 Months.
5 yes, 0 no, 1 Abstain- Approved
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Sanithia
I have already seen on Facebook, many things I don't agree with. Since a store is coming no matter what, I feel I should get my side out at the beginning so that people will know my part in all of this as well as my point of view. I have already posted this as a note on Facebook but I am putting this here for the populace of The Golden Plains to see. Judge me all you want, I still think I was doing what was best for Irongate and The Kingdom of the Golden Plains, as well as Doughboy and Darken. Here you go.
I am wanting to give my thoughts on the happenings at IG's allthing yesterday. I think that many things may be misconstrued and I think that it is important for you all to get the point of view from an IG member who has nothing to gain from all of this. I actually have a whole lot to lose either way. I feel that it is only right to cut through the heated emotions and tempers of those involved and to tell the truth as I see it. It is really easy to pick sides and point the finger, it takes a bigger person to look at things objectively and to be fair and balanced. I hope that all of the people involved in this "GAME" can keep their personal feelings out of this and truly try to work through this as mature adults should.
I feel I must clarify a few things. If anyone is to be pissed over this, I am the one it should be aimed at. I was the only person who voted for suspension over probation. Many people abstained but more agreed that probation was better then suspension. I am also the only one who voted for an indefinite amount of time on probation. The rest of the field abstained. I voted by my interpretation of the "Monkey Rule, " after hearing both sides and the witnesses. It wasn't until Darken requested that he get suspended that the rest of the field voted for what Darken asked for as his punishment. One more thing, the two people thought to be voting against Darken were actually abstaining so as not to let personal issues interfere with Amtgard. However, I voted by what I think is right.
For the record, Doughboy got a 6 month suspension as well. He also is required to once a month hold Amtgard safety classes on our field for the next 6 months. Our monarch, Otto, actually agreed with Darken that this should go to Kingdom not on our field. I was pushing hard for our field to handle this. I felt that since this incident happened on our field, we should try to handle it here first. I also felt that by making this a Kingdom issue that biases would abound because there are people that dislike Doughboy, and there are people who dislike Darken. Thus making this very messy. The IG populace voted, minus our Monarchy, to handle this here.
Another interesting tidbit, before being discussed further, our monarch said that we "IG" can take care of our business but this shouldn't be handled at IG. He said that bias, and the fact that both parties involved were kingdom officials made it something that needed to go to Kingdom, if it needed to happen at all. He also said that because one was from a different field anything IG does would be harder on Darken then Doughboy. Otto was wanting to make sure that the bias was avoided all together and he and the regent abstained from voting at all. Unfortunately, I think that no matter where this took place, bias was inevitable.
The fact is, both Darken and Doughboy admitted fault. A complaint was made at our allthing. The IG populace voted to render their verdict. There were two verdicts rendered. Both parties are amenable to their punishments. Darken suggested his and it was passed. The IG populace voted on Doughboy's and it was passed. I am having issues understanding why this needs to continue if both parties agreed to their punishments.
I could rant on and on about why I feel that a threat to a person's life by an adult is a greater threat than a poor decision of a kid who did not actually intentionally verbally or physically threaten anyone, but I feel that is pointless. Dragging people through the mud will get you nowhere. What was done is done, this needs to end here. I have been personally involved in recruiting new members for our field. It is awesome to see the numbers we have been having. We don't need to scare off new people because the seasoned players can't get along.
Thank you for your time,
Lady Sanithia
I am wanting to give my thoughts on the happenings at IG's allthing yesterday. I think that many things may be misconstrued and I think that it is important for you all to get the point of view from an IG member who has nothing to gain from all of this. I actually have a whole lot to lose either way. I feel that it is only right to cut through the heated emotions and tempers of those involved and to tell the truth as I see it. It is really easy to pick sides and point the finger, it takes a bigger person to look at things objectively and to be fair and balanced. I hope that all of the people involved in this "GAME" can keep their personal feelings out of this and truly try to work through this as mature adults should.
I feel I must clarify a few things. If anyone is to be pissed over this, I am the one it should be aimed at. I was the only person who voted for suspension over probation. Many people abstained but more agreed that probation was better then suspension. I am also the only one who voted for an indefinite amount of time on probation. The rest of the field abstained. I voted by my interpretation of the "Monkey Rule, " after hearing both sides and the witnesses. It wasn't until Darken requested that he get suspended that the rest of the field voted for what Darken asked for as his punishment. One more thing, the two people thought to be voting against Darken were actually abstaining so as not to let personal issues interfere with Amtgard. However, I voted by what I think is right.
For the record, Doughboy got a 6 month suspension as well. He also is required to once a month hold Amtgard safety classes on our field for the next 6 months. Our monarch, Otto, actually agreed with Darken that this should go to Kingdom not on our field. I was pushing hard for our field to handle this. I felt that since this incident happened on our field, we should try to handle it here first. I also felt that by making this a Kingdom issue that biases would abound because there are people that dislike Doughboy, and there are people who dislike Darken. Thus making this very messy. The IG populace voted, minus our Monarchy, to handle this here.
Another interesting tidbit, before being discussed further, our monarch said that we "IG" can take care of our business but this shouldn't be handled at IG. He said that bias, and the fact that both parties involved were kingdom officials made it something that needed to go to Kingdom, if it needed to happen at all. He also said that because one was from a different field anything IG does would be harder on Darken then Doughboy. Otto was wanting to make sure that the bias was avoided all together and he and the regent abstained from voting at all. Unfortunately, I think that no matter where this took place, bias was inevitable.
The fact is, both Darken and Doughboy admitted fault. A complaint was made at our allthing. The IG populace voted to render their verdict. There were two verdicts rendered. Both parties are amenable to their punishments. Darken suggested his and it was passed. The IG populace voted on Doughboy's and it was passed. I am having issues understanding why this needs to continue if both parties agreed to their punishments.
I could rant on and on about why I feel that a threat to a person's life by an adult is a greater threat than a poor decision of a kid who did not actually intentionally verbally or physically threaten anyone, but I feel that is pointless. Dragging people through the mud will get you nowhere. What was done is done, this needs to end here. I have been personally involved in recruiting new members for our field. It is awesome to see the numbers we have been having. We don't need to scare off new people because the seasoned players can't get along.
Thank you for your time,
Lady Sanithia
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Darken
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Darken
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Nevon
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Zander
This should be handled on a kingdom level, these are serious accusations.
A threat is a threat, and if one threat is handled at a kingdom level then this one should be handled in kind and met with the same punishment... 6 month ban from fighting through-out the Kingdom of the Golden Plains. This has been the punishment for threats made by other parties in the past, it should be the punishment for threats made by parties now and in the future...
Darken on your "side note" the relevance of your child being on site is nothing... you willingly brought your child to a place where adult men and women engage in a highly physical contest of arms... stop your pity mongering about your children and about being a parent... if you were that concerned with them being in danger at Amtgard you wouldn't have brought them in the first place... we all bring our children to the park every weekend fully knowing that there could be an accident and they could get hurt, your child being present does not excuse your actions any more than mine being present would excuse me of the same...
Your side note it nothing more than a pathetic attempt to manipulate the sympathies of the populace into believing you didn't do anything wrong...
A threat is a threat, and if one threat is handled at a kingdom level then this one should be handled in kind and met with the same punishment... 6 month ban from fighting through-out the Kingdom of the Golden Plains. This has been the punishment for threats made by other parties in the past, it should be the punishment for threats made by parties now and in the future...
Darken on your "side note" the relevance of your child being on site is nothing... you willingly brought your child to a place where adult men and women engage in a highly physical contest of arms... stop your pity mongering about your children and about being a parent... if you were that concerned with them being in danger at Amtgard you wouldn't have brought them in the first place... we all bring our children to the park every weekend fully knowing that there could be an accident and they could get hurt, your child being present does not excuse your actions any more than mine being present would excuse me of the same...
Your side note it nothing more than a pathetic attempt to manipulate the sympathies of the populace into believing you didn't do anything wrong...
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Darken
As for the Kingdom punishment I did bring it up that this is a Kingdom Issue, It is between 2 kingdom officials, that are from 2 different parks. This didn't seem to matter.
As for my kids yeah I bring them to the park, but yes they never leave Nirvana, I can understand if combat tends to travel to nirvana. But no fighting was taking place. The Kingdom GMR walked into nirvana turned and full pulled a 35ld bow in the middle of nirvana at a young boy standing with-in 10 feet of him. with-in about a 5 foot radius of this there were at least four miniors, one a toddler, and one an infant.
I saw the danger in the situation and I reacted as a parent would. Did I threaten him yes I did I let him know that "if he shot the arrow and my child got hurt from it I'd kill him". I have no problem being punished for what I said, but a fair punishment at the level it should be is what is required.
As for the GMR the monarch deemed that through his actions, nobody was threatened nobody was put in a harmful situation, all the GMR did was make a mistake, and he is sorry for it.
So since you are high and mighty on your words Zander answer me this. I walk up in Nirvana full pull at bow with your kid pretty much in the line of fire right at bow level. Do you be a parent and stop the action, or are you just a guy that eneded up with a kid, and turn your back and walk off?
Answer that question before you respond to anything else.
As for my kids yeah I bring them to the park, but yes they never leave Nirvana, I can understand if combat tends to travel to nirvana. But no fighting was taking place. The Kingdom GMR walked into nirvana turned and full pulled a 35ld bow in the middle of nirvana at a young boy standing with-in 10 feet of him. with-in about a 5 foot radius of this there were at least four miniors, one a toddler, and one an infant.
I saw the danger in the situation and I reacted as a parent would. Did I threaten him yes I did I let him know that "if he shot the arrow and my child got hurt from it I'd kill him". I have no problem being punished for what I said, but a fair punishment at the level it should be is what is required.
As for the GMR the monarch deemed that through his actions, nobody was threatened nobody was put in a harmful situation, all the GMR did was make a mistake, and he is sorry for it.
So since you are high and mighty on your words Zander answer me this. I walk up in Nirvana full pull at bow with your kid pretty much in the line of fire right at bow level. Do you be a parent and stop the action, or are you just a guy that eneded up with a kid, and turn your back and walk off?
Answer that question before you respond to anything else.
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Darken
Just so you know I brought my kid to a public park. If we can't keep our kids safe there, and we can't keep our non-combantants safe. Then whats gonna happen when a mundane child comes walking through. We have things called RULES to help with safety and protect people to the best of our ability. I wouldn't expect you to even know the word RULES but you my come to the safty classes maybe our current KD GMR that can't follow them can help get our KD champion to learn them too.you willingly brought your child to a place where adult men and women engage in a highly physical contest of arms
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Zander
Don't try to distract away from the fact that YOU broke a very important rule. I know the rules very well and I want you to tell me what rule was broken and where in the rulebook it says that threatening someone is the appropriate action in regards to that rule break.
When a physical activity like this is concerned a mundane child has the same chance at getting hurt by walking through an Amtgard field as they do a flag football game at the same park... our rules have no provision for a situation like that... it would be up to the park monarchy and champion to handle it...
Further to the point, you didn't just bring your child to "a public park" you came to Amtgard... and you brought your child to Amtgard... you wern't at the playgroud... you wern't at the water fountain... you were at Amtgard, willingly and knowingly... period.
When a physical activity like this is concerned a mundane child has the same chance at getting hurt by walking through an Amtgard field as they do a flag football game at the same park... our rules have no provision for a situation like that... it would be up to the park monarchy and champion to handle it...
Further to the point, you didn't just bring your child to "a public park" you came to Amtgard... and you brought your child to Amtgard... you wern't at the playgroud... you wern't at the water fountain... you were at Amtgard, willingly and knowingly... period.
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Zander
What would I do if you walked in to my Nirvana w/ a bow drawn at another play and my son was in the arc of possible fire... I would calmly ask you to take it somewhere else because this is a game. I would not explode and threaten to kill you... If at that point you persisted to brandish your playtime weapon in Nirvana I would move my child to a safer place and then ,as champion, exercise my obligation to the kingdom to pull you to the side and explain to you that your action were unacceptable...
That is how an adult deals with things Darken...
That is how an adult deals with things Darken...
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Darken
I'm not gonna argue your point with you Zander, getting anything into your head is like running into a brick wall.
I'm not at all saying I was wrong, and I for one was the person that suspended myself, and will be the one to bring it to the kingdom allthing, will still make sure I have a suspension no matter the outcome of the allthing.
What I'm pointing out is that our groups have a priority to saftey in regards of the citizens, and amtgard members that are in our community. When we willingly put any of these in danger, then we should seek a punishment for our actions. And it is the officers that need to keep that in mind. The IG officers totally disregarded the fact that the GMR did put mundanes as well as amtgardians, and children in danger with his actions. And the Monarchy of Irongate would not listen to the citizens complaints about these actions, and threw them out the window.
The danger we face as a group that plays in a public place is more than just an internal thing. Once our officers show no concern to the safetly as a whole which is what just happened, then it allows for even worse instances. When our players don't have a concern for thier surroundings and anything that happens to anyone with-in the area then we face a larger problem. ie. a spectator watching with thier kid, our members with no respect for the mundanes plow right through them cause they don't care, that's a lawsuit, and probably a city council issue that will get involved. You tell me what that will do for our group?
I'm not at all saying I was wrong, and I for one was the person that suspended myself, and will be the one to bring it to the kingdom allthing, will still make sure I have a suspension no matter the outcome of the allthing.
What I'm pointing out is that our groups have a priority to saftey in regards of the citizens, and amtgard members that are in our community. When we willingly put any of these in danger, then we should seek a punishment for our actions. And it is the officers that need to keep that in mind. The IG officers totally disregarded the fact that the GMR did put mundanes as well as amtgardians, and children in danger with his actions. And the Monarchy of Irongate would not listen to the citizens complaints about these actions, and threw them out the window.
The danger we face as a group that plays in a public place is more than just an internal thing. Once our officers show no concern to the safetly as a whole which is what just happened, then it allows for even worse instances. When our players don't have a concern for thier surroundings and anything that happens to anyone with-in the area then we face a larger problem. ie. a spectator watching with thier kid, our members with no respect for the mundanes plow right through them cause they don't care, that's a lawsuit, and probably a city council issue that will get involved. You tell me what that will do for our group?